Spector is reporting, citing a L.A. Times opinion piece by Helene Elliot that if J.S. Giguere loses the starting job to Jonas Hiller, the Ducks will be forced to ask Jiggy to waive his NMC. Elliot is right. Ducks just can't carry a $6M backup goalie.
Spector then claims that great hard to verify catchall "internet speculation" suggesting Burke is interested in acquiring Giguere. Then he goes on to link a Damian Cox column suggesting the Leafs will either demote or trade Toskala sometime this season.
Cox doesn't mention Giguere and Elliot doesn't mention the Leafs. So spector's reporting seems based entirely on this thing called internet speculation.
There are a couple a reasons Giguere to Toronto, MIGHT make some sense. A lot has to happen first though.
Leafs have to make a decision on Toskala. Vessa has to exhaust their patience. There doesn't appear to be any rush to tender Toskala a ticket out of Toronto.
New hire Jonas Gustaavsson is a concern given minor heart surgery and now out with a tender groin in his first month with the team. The capable Joey McDonald has been called up to take the backup job while Monster gets well.
From the Ducks side of things, Giguere has to lose the starters job and agree to waive his NMC to go to Toronto. Neither has happened. Even though the smart money is on Hiller, Giguere has to play well enough for his $6M to get picked up.
Even if all the disparate parts fall into place, Francois Allaire will have to sign off on it as well.
If a month ago somebody told you we would bomb the moon this morning, all of a sudden Giguere to Leafs doesn't seem so weird.
Posted on 10/9 1:21 AM | IP: 24.205.180.38
I'm not so sure I like the idea but I could see it happening.
As far as moving out Toskala, I think they would be happy to do so almost no matter what the return.
To take Jiggy back? Thats an enormous financial risk long-term if he's truly not capable of winning and keeping a starting job. My question is, has he regressed that much or is Hiller just that much better? If its the former, then you can keep him.
I would hate for egos to get in the way here, and Alaire and Burke decide that they can bring Jiggy here, get him back to 100% and take us to glory... being overconfident about that type of thing is what turns a move like this into a huge failure.
one thing to note.. the medical treatment that Jiggy's son gets at UCLA - something he can't get in very many places - he can probably get at Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto. This would obviously be a huge factor for Jiggy to waive his NTC.
Posted on 10/9 7:00 AM | IP: 24.114.255.83
I think the Leafs should definitely acquire Giguere if they get to trade Toskala first, which i find highly unlikely. I don't see any team interested in Toskala unless both their goalies go down with injuries.
I guess maybe the Ducks wouldn't mind saving $2M this season on Toskala and lose him for next season and save on Giguere's salary. So........... Giguere for Toskala straight up? Why not? Ducks save $2M in cap this year and the next, so $8M in total for two seasons if making this trade.
I mean, is there a better goalie out there for Burke to get in the off-season in 2010 (realistically)?
Here is a list:
Turco: Not a bad idea, but i don't see Dallas giving him away. Nabokov: I don't see San Jose giving him away. Theodore Mason, Chris Ellis Hiller: Ducks will lock him up Hedberg Auld Lalime Valiquette Leighton Rinne: Preds will lock him up
I mean, unless one of the goalies that i expect to re-sign with his current team becomes available, then sure, but right now it's doubtful.
Posted on 10/9 8:11 AM | IP: 74.233.127.86
You nailed it IanD. Honestly and frankly the Ducks don't know the answer to the Hiller/Jiggy question either. I can share this much because this much I do know. The players prefer Hiller.
lol@not tampering. Indulge me, out of friendship and consider; outside of MLSE, Leafs Nation and NHL headquarters, anti-Leaf sentiment is huge. It seems to be based in part on a general lack of trust that the Leafs put profit ahead of the game while playing fast and loose with the rules.
Anti-MLSE/Burke is kinda similar to anti-Americanism actually. Something every Canadian knows something about.
I hope IanD, you might appreciate that has nothing to do you and me. The distrust is for MLSE, and Leafs management. We will I trust always share the hope and grudging respect for great young players like Stalberg, Kadri, Bozek, Schenn and that Monster guy.
I genuinely look forward to the Leafs becoming a competitive team again. That the occasional Ducks/Leafs tilts are close, entertaining and have more meaning.
But don't ask anyone outside Leafs Nation or NHL Headquarters to believe that MLSE and Brian Burke are ethical and honorable operators. It just ain't so my friend. It's as PC as going to Boston and asking everyone you meet, "How 'bout those Yankees?"
But yeah "that ain't tampering" truly made me laugh. And in a good way Bud.
Posted on 10/9 8:41 AM | IP: 24.205.180.38
Who backs up Hiller? If all this goes down.
Posted on 10/9 8:47 AM | IP: 66.25.41.122
Absolutely Toskala has to go the other way in the trade. Its the only way to make it work and the only way it would happen.
Jiggy might be better but stil.. he's an aging goalie who lost his job to a kid and he makes $6 mil for 2-3 more years... that drops his value rather drastically I would say.
Posted on 10/9 9:03 AM | IP: 24.114.255.83
Toskala!
Posted on 10/9 9:06 AM | IP: 24.114.255.83
It's my new signature line.
I like it too... it might stay for a while. ;)
Posted on 10/9 9:08 AM | IP: 24.114.255.83
Sometimes you've got to look beyond what is staring you in the face Ian... :)
It was tampering, but the bigger question is how valid are the accustations by many, including those outside of Vancouver, that a very select few organizations are the ones running the league...
In other words, are the accusations that the Leafs and not Bettman the ones who kept JB or any other potential owner for that matter, out of Ontario?...
You always follow the money for the truth, and I don't bother to worry about isolated events, but when it happens 3 times that shows a trend and trends are what get my attention, so why was a trend of tampering only penalized by a slap on the wrist?...
Burkey and Bettman are part of a select old boys club which makes this stink in the same way that the NHLPA stinks relative to Kelly and the investigator who is part of the olds boys club which includes Eagleson...
Does any of this matter?...
Not if you brush it off because it's your team that got the slap on the wrist, but if you think about the long term concerns this should raise, it should bother you, Leaf fan or not...
Did you spell "Canucks" wrong for a reason? If yes, i will you, hehe.
Posted on 10/9 9:49 AM | IP: 92.78.5.142
There wasn't much said How can that be tampering? Does anybody have a record of what was said?
Posted on 10/9 10:01 AM | IP: 66.25.41.122
Again I go back what has to happen to for Giguere to Leafs to be taken seriously. So let's move ahead and assume Toskala is a bust, Giguere returns to previous form or a reasonable facsimile.
Even if declining, Giguere was a Top 5 goalie in the NHL so he has to perform in the Top 10 or Leafs don't want him. Ducks would be trading a Top 10 goalie for a backup. It would make sense from the Ducks POV because we can let Vessa go UFA at the end of the season unless he was willing to accept the backup role with a backup pay rate.
The cap saving to us though is only about $2M. What's that worth a 2nd entry round pick? Ducks could do that, add a 2nd round pick for cap value.
So now we're down to giving the Ducks back something of value to offset the difference between the goalies. It's understood Leafs aren't trading Kadri so I won't insult ya. What about Bozak?
Posted on 10/9 10:51 AM | IP: 24.205.180.38
I think the $9 mil difference in the Toskala vs Jiggy contract makes up for the difference, but that's just me. That is an enormous savings for the Ducks next year.
Posted on 10/9 11:05 AM | IP: 24.114.255.83
I agree with Ian about the Ducks getting out of the $6 mil cap hit next year with the cap dropping. That, and that alone, is the reason for the Ducks to make a Giguere-Toskala swap, but it is a pretty damn good reason.
Hiller's contract is up this year, no? What do you think he will make? Assuming he signed now, obviously a really good or really bad run over the rest of the year could change that. Say he gets $3.5 mil. If he truly does take the starter job than that is a conservative amount. The Ducks would have to be pretty desperate at that point to dump Giguere's final year of his contract. If they could wipe that slate clean AND save $2 mil this season then I think they would do that.
As for the Leafs, I think a lot of it depends on how well Gustavsson plays over the next month or two. If Gustavsson runs hot then I think they would be happy to let him start the bulk of games, with Joey Mac as the backup if need be. I think even Wilson and Burke have given up hope of Toskala being the goalie they need. Sure they say all the right things (they've got to) but at this point I think they are just hoping that he doesn't lose too many game on his own. The concern with trading Toskala and going with Gus-Mac as a tandem is doing to Gustavsson what Montreal did to Price after trading Huet. Not having a vet around could be tough in a rough stretch.
Taking on $6 mil for next year would be rough, and would pretty much put the Leafs out of the running for any of the big UFA's this coming summer, unless they demoted/traded Blake or Finger or somebody. Giguere would have to be clearly better than Toskala to make the trade worthwile. Would there be any interest in Anaheim for Finger? Not likely with Boynton now signed I would imagine, but taking on an additional salary dump is about the only way to expand the package.
And no, the Leafs wont be trading Bozak
Posted on 10/9 11:29 AM | IP: 69.196.186.199
I hear ya's not wanting to pony up more. If Leafs were the only buyer we'd have to accept Toskala for Giguere straight up. I'm just not convinced that is the situation.
Atlanta, Washington, Tampa Bay are possible trade partners.
Ducks really expect this is the last season for Cap & Teemu. Bertuzzi's buyout comes off the cap at the end of this season as well. That's about $10M in cap space. Plenty enough to sign Bobby Ryan and Jonas Hiller.
Posted on 10/9 2:47 PM | IP: 24.205.180.38
It happens when a goalie loses his job to a kid. So what? If the goalie is good, then he's good. You call 32 years of age, aging? Come on.....
Look, the Leafs are a rich club so....to spend $2M more on a goalie (in cap space, but it's $1.5M in salary) for this season is no big deal, and next season is the final year on his contract at $6M, but so what? What's there to lose for the Leafs? I don't think they will go after big name UFA players next season. Maybe one, but they are also losing a bunch of players to free agency.
The goaltending cannot get any worse than it's current status if you add Giguere, in fact it has the potential to get better. He is a proven goalie.
I say go for it.
Posted on 10/9 10:08 PM | IP: 74.233.127.86
Quite honestly Thrasher, why would the Leafs want Giguere anyways? Their are not going to be a contender this or next season and eventhough Burke says he wants to be in the playoffs, having a guy like Giguere only gets them a couple more points and maybe the right to get swept in the first playoff round. The only thing it would do, is giving Boston a worse pick.
Posted on 10/10 11:05 AM | IP: 92.78.13.203
The Leafs should go after a kid named McKee, he broke all or most of Ken Dryden's records at Cornell. Funny nobody seems to know where he is at, I'm thinking they are hiding their prospect. But this kid has amazing lateral movement and above average glove hand. He covers most of the net due to his height.
Posted on 10/10 12:45 PM | IP: 66.25.41.122
Maybe because Burke said the playoffs are the goal, Pete. Right now it doesn't look like either goalie can give them a chance to get there.
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